Update 3:45 Jennifer Pouncy will be up following the break.

Sandra Stokes Walden

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Posted by: Sandra Walden
Date: Feb 10 2012 3:46 PM

2:06  Counsel has been in the library meeting with the Judge.  They are returning to the courtroom now.  The jury is now entering the courtroom.  2:13 Judge Thompson has now entered the courtroom. 

Attorney Meeks for the government has some follow up questions for him.  Mr. Segall asked you about certain things being illegal that was done.  You are aware that federal law makes it illegal to  take money for work you do in a federal job?  No sir I am not aware of federal law.  

Were you aware that Senator Means asked for money from a lobbyist for his campaign?  No sir I am not.  When you testified that Senator Means without a doubt was going to look out for the people of Etowah County were you aware that Mr. Means asked a lobbyist a few days before the vote for $100,000 because if he voted yes for SB380 the people of Etowah County would not support him?  No sir. 

Who in the LRS was most knowledgeable about gambling?  Crosby.  In the LRS you might have to work nights and some week-ends is that not right?  Yes sir.  In fact that is written in the LRS handbook isn’t it?  I believe it is. 

They are now looking at the LRS handbook.  Do you see section D yes sir.  Please read that first section.  This is talking about working overtime to meet the requirements during the peak time.  It may be necessary for a person to devote many more hours to his job than he would like. 

Do you remember when Mr. Segall asked you when was the last time you even reviewed the LRS Manual?  I said two years ago.  When did you retire, January 2011.  There are updates that come out for the LRS manual and they have to sign a form that you have received a update and have read it?  Yes sir. 

And do you remember when you said that you would not expect Mr. McGregor to be aware of the requirements in the LRS manual?  Yes sir.  But you would expect Ray Crosby to be familiar with the LRS manual wouldn’t you?  Yes sir.

The government is admitting into evidence the form signed by Ray Crosby stating that he had read the manual. 

There was an objection from Mr. Segall that Mr. Meeks was leading the witness, it was sustained.

Mr. Feld take a look at the third page of GE…can you tell the month and year that references.  January 11, 2000.  This is a acknowledgement that Ray Crosby had received and read the revised LRS Manual and would be familiar with its content. 

Based on your knowledge what did Mr. Bassett know about Ray Crosby receiving money from Mr. McGregor, working as a consultant for Mr. McGregor, and what did Mr. Bassett know about MR. Crosby having a outside business?  I had no knowledge either way

Based on your knowledge between 2008 and 2010 what did you know about MR. Crosby having a outside business?  I did not know.  And based on your knowledge between 2008 and 2010 what did you know about Mr. McGregor paying Ray Crosby $3000 a month for consulting?  I did not know.

Mr. Meeks is wanting to admit into evidence the checks that were paid by the Macon County Greyhound park to Mr. Crosby.  Mr. Segall is objecting and asking that the government must admit the 1099’s also.  Overruled 

Government’s exhibit 1124 starting with the check on the back, April 20, 2010 date referenced.   Is that the first check that you have in your copy?  Yes I have that.  Going forward one check, the next check is March 12, 2010, $3000.00.  Can you tell that this check is from Macon County Greyhound Park.  Mr. Segall says that they will agree to the fact that all of these checks are from Macon County Greyhound Park.

Mr. Feld have you ever seen these checks were from Macon County Greyhound Park to Mr. Crosby?  No sir.  You were not aware of any of these checks?  Correct.

After reviewing the transcripts between Mr. McGregor and Mr. Crosby and reviewing the long bill and short bill.   The transcripts happened between March 7, 2010 and April 7, 2010  weren’t they?  I am not aware of the time period.  Were you aware that there was a check being paid the month those phone calls were?  No sir.

When you were answering the question if there was something that troubled you about the bills and Mr. Crosby’s work on them you said no?  correct.  After seeing the  checks and the time period would you now  be troubled about the bills?  Yes sir.  I would be troubled about a employee receiving money from an outside source when he was working on the bill.

Would you think it was possible that Mr. McGregor was paying Mr. Crosby to work favorably on SB380 for him?  It is possible.

As a authorized person would you expect him to be authorized to pay the analyst he was working with money for working with him?  No sir.

Based on your experience with the LRS would it have been beyond the scope of Mr. Crosby’s position to come up with the special session as a suggestion?  I would say that is not improper.

You were telling us about hours members of the LRS would have to work.  From your experience would you say there were times when Mr. Crosby would have to work in a outside location in the drafting of the bill?  I would not.

And in the transcripts of the telephone conversations what was the topic of the conversation between Mr. McGregor and Mr. Crosby?  Senate Bill 380.

Mr. Meeks gives copies to Mr. Feld which are copies of the 1099’s Misc given to Ray Crosby from Macon County Greyhound Association.   They are admitted into evidence.  

Mr. Meeks is publishing the exhibit (1164A) to the Jury using the elmo.  Mr. Feld let me ask you as Mr. Crosby’s supervisor at one time at LRS would you have had access to any 1099 forms for Mr. Crosby?  No.  Do you know if anyone at LRS would have had access to that document?  I don’t believe they would.

No further questions.

Bobby Segall is now approaching the podium.

 Mr. Feld do you recall that I asked you on cross examination that if a LRS Analyst is asked to do outside work that it is on Mr. Crosby to determine if that work is approved or in line with the LRS guidelines.  Yes

Has it been disclosed to you that Crosby was doing any  outside work for anyone besides Macon County Greyhound Park it was on Mr. Crosby to decide if the work was with in the guidelines of the LRS.

Will the government stipulate when they started them and when they ended.  Mr. Segall is asking the government to read the dates of the checks, when they started and when they ended (the copies must be very poor because Mr. Segal says his arms are not long enough for him to read the documents.) 

Mr. Crosby was doing his outside work in September of 2009 and let me also represent to you that he was doing his outside work in October of 2009 and  there is a check in here for those months and also November of 2009.   With these checks going to Mr. Crosby during these months, do you recall with me the exhibit 2321 that was in October, 2009 that Ray Crosby worked on, that would have put Macon County Greyhound Park out of business?  I don’t recall the bill number or the date.  Do you have that exhibit Mr. Feld?  I do. 

My question to you is that Mr. Crosby was receiving checks from Macon County Greyhound Park the month before October and the Month after October in 2009 that he prepared a anti-gambling bill for Senator Beason in October of 2009?  He was asked to draft a bill in October 2009 that would essentially wipe out electronic gambling or any gambling in the State of Alabama. 

Is it possible that the payments to Mr. Crosby did not have on single little bitty thing he was doing in the work at LRS?  Yes.

Look at exhibit 23 alone, that is in January of 2010, right at the time that SB380 was being presented, right?  Yes.  What ever Crosby was doing to receive compensation from Macon County Greyhound Park Crosby prepared a bill that would do damage to Macon Count Greyhound Park?  It would damage Macon County Greyhound Park.

Fatal Damage?  I don’t have the knowledge to answer that.

Is it true that the bill in January if passed makes all gambling in Alabama?  Yes

Repeals the Constitution amendment under which Victoryland was operated, is that correct?  I don’t know that constitutional amendment number but I do see that numerous amendments are repealed. 

Mr. Meeks on redirect was asking you about the difference, the changes made in the long bill of 380 that was first introduced and the very short bill that was introduced, do you remember that?  I do.

And during that period Mr. Crosby was doing what ever he did for Macon County Greyhound Park he got a 1099 for his work.  He reported them to the IRS service.

Did I understand that in the long bill folks who already had a operating gaming facility got preferential treatment as already having a operating facility?  Yes.  That was wonderful for Macon County Greyhound Park.  Yes.  In the   short bill that passes and Crosby is getting paid by MCGP, all of a sudden MCGP was not grandfathered in?  that is right.  That wasn’t good for MCGP was it?  No sir.  That change was not beneficial to MCGP or Mr. McGregor was it?  No sir.

A lot of the details were left out of the long bill in the short bill and that the legislature would handle that by procedural means.  That is right. 

From the long bill to the short bill did the tax rate not change to say not less than 25%?   Yes it said the amount of the tax shall not be less than 25%.  We are talking about a constitutional amendment, we are talking about Mr. Crosby working on the side with MCGP and let’s talk about the tax rate in the long bill saying 25% to the change of saying not less than 25 %.  The first bill to get a increase of the tax would be very difficult to do.  It would have been pretty difficult  to have increased the tax on MCGP would it?  It would have lots of obstacles.

The final version says not less than 25% doesn’t it?  Yes sir.  That means that we don’t have to have a constitutional amendment to increase that tax and tax MCGP right out of the business?  That’s right. 

In Nov of 2010 and the Republican Legislature if SB380 had passed could have simply raised the tax and put MCGP right out of business couldn’t it?  Yes sir.

All of this time Crosby getting paid, Crosby doing the drafting, Crosby getting these checks,  not only do we end the grandfathering but also it changes the tax rate that could make it very difficult for Macon County Greyhound Park?  I would agree.

It is true that all of those conversations in March of 2010 that concerned drafting this legislation Crosby was at work during those conversations?  I do not know.  But you can say that he was very very busy working on SB380?  I can’t say what else he was working on. 

It was taking a lot of his time because not only because of the rules of LRS but also because he was required to give extra effort to Milton McGregor and Bedford due to Bedford’s committee position?  That’s right.

In May of 2008 there was not a hint or a breath of a problem with electronic bingo in Macon County?  I don’t know what you mean by a problem.  That the government did not start his task force?  I don’t know.

At anytime did anybody, any employee of the LRS at any of this time of May 2008, through April of 2010, did any employee of the LRS suggest to you that Mr. Crosby was trying to obstruct their anti-gaming legislation?  I did not.  Did Ray Crosby appear to you at anytime to exert any more energy to anti-gaming than to gaming legislation?  No he did not. 

Am I correct that the priority required by…couldn’t the Governor and the Lt. Governor ask the LRS to draft a bill?  Yes sir.  Am I not correct that number one priority required by law is to give preference to members of the Legislative Committee over the Governor or Lt Governor?  It is required.  Isn’t that why Ray Crosby was devoting so much time to SB380?  It is

Assume that drafting the special session into SB380 was Mr. Crosby’s idea.  Perfectly legal with in the guidelines of the LRS?  It is. 

Marcel Black the sponsor in the House wanted the special session included in the bill?  Yes sir.

You were asked questions if you know that Bassett knew about Ray Crosby doing outside work for MCGP?  I do not know.  Do you know if Mr. Bassett knew about other outside work being done by Ray Crosby?  I can’t say one way or another.

Do you know if Mr. Bassett knew about outside work being done by other employees outside of the LRS?  I do not know.

Mr. Crosby was also a lawyer correct?  Yes sir.  Let’s say if he worked 15 hours a month for $20  a hour that would be $3,000.  There are 8 week-end days a month.  Fifteen hours is less that 2 hours a week-end day a month.  Correct.  Fifteen hours is not a ton of month?  I would agree. 

During the time that the LRS was in these periods of overtime work Mr. Crosby was flat out an overtime worker?  He worked a lot of week-ends and nights during the times of overtime work.  Would you agree with me that in volume of work Mr. Crosby was right at the top in hours worked?  I would agree.  LRS did not get shorted by Mr. Crosby did it?  I would agree. 

Your honor I knew that the government intended to do this but of all the documents they published they did not give copies of the 1099’s to the jury, they published it on the elmo, we would like to give the hard copies.  Mr. Segall has no further questions.

Baxley has no questions.

Mr. Clark has a few questions.  Mr. Clark asked you if a analyst was to come up with ideas for a bill.  It is not within the functions of our office to say I am going to draft a bill for xyz.    There is nothing wrong with an analyst coming up with ideas for a bill that he has been assigned to work on for a legislator?  No sir that is our job.

In so far as the bill that were passed and the things that it gave Etowah means to do, that the shorter bill was better for Etowah County than the original bill if they wanted to have a gaming facility?  Any body could apply. 

Mr. Clark is offering into evidence a map that shows the congressional districts.  I asked you earlier about the congressional districts and the fourth congressional district and Senator Bedford is from Russelville.  Senator Baron is from Dekalb.  And Senator  Geuing is from another county in that district.  If Etowah County wanted a site there Senator Means would have been competing with those other powerful Senators wouldn’t he?  Yes sir.

The original SB380 if there was a local Constiutional amendment then certain revenues would not go to those counties?  No sir. 

Etowah County had a constitutional amendment for paper bingo and under the long bill Etowah County would not have received any additional revenue from that bill?  True.  And under the short bill Etowah would have been on equal standing.

No one else has questions for re-cross.  Mr. Meeks has no re-direct.

Ten minute break and then we will go to approximately five.  Jennifer Pouncy is the next witness.

 

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